“Stray far enough from Reality, and Nature wipes you out.” -Stefan Molyneux
So I had another entire article ready to be edited and ready to be published, but this couldn’t be let go, not without answer. I’ve spent the last few weeks with this guy on instagram with the handle @mk_macabre (such an uplifting handle if I’ve ever seen one) tagging me in every PETA vegan animal farm video he can find. I can only imagine he did this (and still does) to target my name, because I doubt he’s scrolled the rest of my feed, else he wouldn’t have called me some of the names he did. That’s right, shocker! A vegan guy not only called me names (repeatedly), but doesn’t know when to stop; it’s my opinion he’s pretty much a drone with zero self awareness. So much so, that I started taking every post he tagged me in to start a Q&A session called Ask Bacon. As you can imagine, it started a wildfire of anger, because I dared to offer information that you don’t get if you’re under the religion of veganism.
Not surprisingly, this is about Vegans, their recent targeting of me, and the reality, as the title states, of how veganism is a religion even though every vegan will deny it. The reasons they do will be explored, but first, let’s go through some definitions, because if you are to have a productive conversation with anyone, you need hard objective definitions to figure out the reality of the situation, and draw answers from it. Otherwise, if you only stick to subjective answers, that means everything can be interpreted differently, meaning there can be no answer or conclusion to be drawn, in which case what’s the point of having the conversation in the first place?
Religion – Obviously we have the deity version, but for the sake of conversation we’ll go with the more open version: “A personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices. “I’ll leave the definition of “scrupulous conformity” alone because I hate repeating myself, but it is my view, using reality as the lens (which means no lens), that veganism acts the same way, whether their practitioners want to admit to it or not, which I hope to prove later.
Ideology – The back up word I usually go to when vegans get angry that I call their beliefs a religion: “a. A manner or the content of thinking characteristic of an individual, group or culture. b. The integrated assertions, theories and aims that constitute a sociopolitical program, and c. a systematic body of concepts especially about human life or culture. ” See too many differences between the two definitions? Yeah, me neither. Let’s get to the next one, which is the most important one so far:
Persecution – This is where, I propose, an ideology becomes a religion, in that it starts to do the following to non-believers: “the act or practice of persecuting, especially those who differ in origin, religion, or social outlook.” In other words: “You don’t believe in my belief system!? YOU’RE A NAZI!!!!!” But wait, there’s one more important word that needs defining, which is important not only to the argument here, but to veganism specifically, because the argument is often used that animals are:
Sentient – There’s two versions of this word. The first: Responsive to or conscious of sense impressions; in other words, you can process sense data. the other: The capacity to feel, perceive or experience subjectively; meaning to be able to conceive abstract concepts. Relating to the first definition, which is the most recognized, is that it would involve every living species today: the reason they are still alive and not extinct today is because they can perceive the real world and adapt accordingly, including plants. Meaning no matter what, you cannot use the “sentient” argument whilst pursuing the veganism narrative. The other, of course, is a uniquely human trait, since we are the only ones able to abstract things not even present in reality. Meaning that, sure, cannibalism is off the table, but also that no other creature isn’t, because they aren’t sentient, animal, plant or otherwise.
Good luck convincing a vegan with this argument though., due to the following definition:
Cognitive Dissonance: Psychological conflict resulting from incongruous beliefs and attitudes held simultaneously. Or as better explained here: “The mental conflict that occurs when beliefs or assumptions are contradicted by new information. The unease or tension that the conflict arouses in people is relieved by one of several defensive maneuvers: they reject, explain away, or avoid the new information; explain away, or avoid the new information; persuade themselves that no conflict really exists; reconcile the differences; or resort to any other defensive means of preserving stability or order in their conceptions of the world and of themselves.” In other words, no matter how well reasoned it may or may not be, it doesn’t matter: science, or reason and evidence, is always self-critical; ideology, and religion, is always self reinforcing. Related to this is the often used technique known as Projection, where the person will accuse you of the behaviors and attitudes that they themselves are responsible for; for example, accusing you of using ad hominems, while also calling you names. So why do I keep comparing veganism to religion? Aside from the fact that it really gets under their skin, there’s one definition I forgot to mention, which I will put here:
Secular – 2. (for clarity) “Not bound by monastic views or rules; specifically of, relating to, or forming clergy not belonging to a religious order or congregation.” In other words, it doesn’t need a church to impose an order. What this has to do with veganism is that whenever you compare it to any religion, vegans will inevitably use the argument that veganism has no god to follow (more on this later), therefore it isn’t a religion. That only holds water until you realize that religions, or cults, or ideologies, can be what they are without a deity, as defined here. Like many ideologies, they also live more in language rather than reality, meaning they place more value upon what is said, rather than what is done. So now that we have some definitions to work with, what’s really going on here?
My own quote: “the moment an ideology becomes a religion is when it starts persecuting nonbelievers.”
Quick question: if you eat meat, do you come after people that only eat plants? Sure, people do it in a joking way, as people do everywhere, but as far as I know (which is not empirical, understood), I don’t see too many people giving a moral argument that eating just plants is wrong. You know what i do see? Public transport buses with VEGAN billboards over them. people like the ones on Instagram who continue to come after me, simply for my name. It should be noted that I didn’t even start my page to come after the vegans, yet they came after me. You know who else solicits their own beliefs, uninvited, in order to convert others to their cause? Namely in this country, Mormons, Scientologists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc. (I’d include Islamists, but they tend to be more stabby). Yet most vegans I come across tend to be more of the secular variety, meaning they’re usually against any religion that has a god, or any overarching values to guide them.
So the problem, of course, is that people need a belief system to follow: just because traditional religion is gone doesn’t change that fact; people still need some belief system to fall behind. And that’s where things like veganism come up, along with other accompanying ones like environmentalism (which, if I were to name a deity for this along with veganism, it would be Gaia. ) along with socialism/communism, which brings up another point:
There’s the argument that’s often brought up, which is when a vegan acknowledges that animal products were necessary for human survival, they’ll say it’s time to “progress” beyond them and “GO VEGAN!” The obvious short of that argument is that the solution is aways to take away things that help the human body and replace them with an inferior product (Even Domz Thompson, a noted vegan bodybuilder, says he would be even bigger if he ate meat, meaning he’d have more muscle mass if he had an actual balanced diet that helped build what his body is made of, which is meat not plants). But this narrative of an argument follows the same pattern as people who argue for environmentalism, usually against fossil fuels (“well fossil fuels helped humanity flourish and grow, but now it’s time to move beyond them and Go Solar Panels!”), along with Communism/Socialism (“Well Capitalism helped us grow out of poverty into clean cities and excess resources, but it’s time to move beyond it and collectivize: Go Democratic Socialism!”) Hell, you can even see veins of this narrative in Atheism: “Well religion helped us stay together as a community, but it’s time to grow out of believing in sky ghosts while throwing out all of the accompanying principles and be Atheists!”, the irony being that they still make it an ideology to follow.
And like any ideology, it must go after things that go against it’s narrative: environmentalists rail against fossil fuels, Socialists are against Capitalism, and Vegans are against animal products. Notice a pattern here? Though they can and will deny this, nearly every religious system not only need something “good” to believe in, but must have something “evil” to oppose, whether it’s Christians denouncing Satan and any behavior associated with it, or Islamists opposing anything they consider as infidels or infidel behavior. This is an important distinction from methods that seek knowledge such as the scientific method or philosophy (in other words: reality), both of which when done properly rather in name only, look at the whole picture, all sides of the conversation.
So in the case of veganism, do they look at any of the positive aspects of using animal products (such as meat containing quite a few key nutrients that plant based diets alone cannot provide, or their uses as building materials), or any of the negative aspects of plant based products (such as the huge damage added sugar and vegetable oils do to the body, which a lot of off the shelf vegan products have)? Some do, but in general no; the narrative is usually Meat Bad, Veggies Good. Do they employ freedom of choice: meaning do they provide all of the facts in an unbiased manner (yes, I laughed out loud typing this) and let you choose to follow the reason and evidence on your own? Or are you told that you must accept it as thee written gospel, and if you go against it, as stated above, you must be in favor of the mass rape, torture and murder of those poor, innocent animals (actual accusations I’ve gotten), or ad hominems and name calling in general, such as you’re super unhealthy and will die a horrible death (which, in fairness, is better than telling me I’m going to Hell)?
It’s demonstrably obvious that veganism, while there is merit to some of what it preaches and people have had improvements to their health, is flawed at best(not going to get into it now, because this article is already getting too long as it is. for starters, check the Healthline link below). So why does it exist at all let alone continue to be a pervasive diet, let alone ideology? As explained above, the loss of a belief system led to veganism becoming what it is, but there are a couple of other reasons I think are important to note:
Emotional Coercion: I will say some vegans will present actual facts, flawed or otherwise. But, as my recent experience has been, chances are you’ll get a gut wrenching picture of some animal in a pen or a hanging carcass, or something along those lines. This usually goes alongside the arguments of how animals are treated and that they suffer for your love of bacon and wings. While I’m a philosopher (and insane) and therefore am pretty much immune to emotional arguments, the vast majority of people tend to be at least somewhat affected, which you often see with vegans that become public figures. The doublethink here, of course, is that plants also want to live, also have feelings, and also defend themselves from attackers. (again, links are below) “In order for you to live, something has to die”. It is simply picking one form of life to eat rather than the other.
Bad Childhood Diet: As I’ve written about before in the War On Fat article (which is an important one to read), many of the health problems seen today popped up in the last 40 plus years, chiefly from replacing some of the healthy foods used the last hundreds of years with new, more manufactured ingredients, with predictable disastrous results. This not only harmed the adults that adopted the diet, but many people that grew up during that time period also had it during their childhood, myself included. As noted in the Fast Food article, it is so damaging that just about any diet, including the vegan variety, would be a better alternative, since even vegan cuts out a lot of the deadly ingredients. So people, who usually start out as vegetarian and then go vegan, will attribute veganism as the cure, when in reality it is just damage control.
Laziness: This doesn’t just apply to veganism as a diet, but other diets as well, fad diets in particular; it’s far easier to adopt a system or methodology rather than create your own. And, at the risk of repeating myself, when you don’t have your own values, any prefabricated value system is far more attractive to follow, which veganism is today; even the Keto movement, though it may very well go down the same path, is fairly unique as a movement more than it is a diet or lifestyle. Which, whether they say it or not, leads to:
Consequences: There’s a grocer I talk to regularly that I get into arguments with constantly. Lovely lady, someone I enjoy talking to about most subjects. But even just taking our physiques into considerations, I kind of have an unfair advantage: the fact that I actually exercise regularly certainly helps, but it’s clear I’m in far better shape than her. Also, to be fair, she is a little older than I am, but given the scores of bodybuilders out there in their 60’s & 70’s, that’s not being used as an excuse. She also exhibits many of the visible symptoms explained above not to mention any underlying physical problems, so unfortunately I don’t have much faith she will listen to reason until it is too late. And that’s the fear I have for many of the people that follow this religion today.
Speaking of which, Poor Lierre Keith. She followed the doctrine of veganism, and as she said herself, it ruined a lot of her life, let alone her health. She now has a book out speaking against it, and apparently now has vegans making death threats against her, though I doubt any of them have the energy, let alone the ability, to carry them out. I do suppose, had she not taken the vegan route, her story about what NOT to do wouldn’t be here today for you to learn from but, and I don’t know about you, I’d rather people avoid these kinds of consequences and suffering in the first place, rather than having to learn from them.
Roses: Someone brought this up while we were talking about the Instagram kerfuffle, so I thought it was worth bringing up here. How many vegans buy roses for their loved ones, even though that’s death to said roses? People tend not to even eat them, instead merely using them as decoration and a way to get laid. So while vegans will rail against anyone that dareth to use anything that any creature that falls under the animal kingdom once breathed on, and at the same time many of these very same people will kill plants for no other reason than vanity. Let that sink in for a second: vegans will shame you for enjoying bacon because it cost a living creature’s life, yet they will take a creature’s life because it looks pretty in a nice vase?
Last thought: carnivores in nature tend to be smarter than herbivores, since it takes far more brain power and coordination to hunt an animal than it is to eat grass. Funny enough, r/K theory could apply here as an example alone: rabbits (the symbol for the r) can meet their nutritional requirements just by grazing on grass and other grains that are readily available and can’t put up much of a fight rather than their own chemical warfare. Wolves on the other hand (the K example), have to find, hunt down and catch said rabbits and other prey sources of food, which takes a lot more coordination and intellect than just eating grass. Humans not only evolved to be apex predators, but are THEE apex predator, and one that helped make other life on the planet flourish. Vegans, through virtue signaling for their own egos and religion in lieu of actual human progress, want us to go backwards in time, making us all become prey once again. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather myself and my loved ones prevail over all others. So if you’re really worried about minimizing the human footprint instead of making life better for your own species, I have a question for you: which of your own family are you willing to sacrifice for your own ideology to prevail?
Article on nutrients you can’t get from plant foods:
Evidence of plant life being able to sense and feel pain or damage:
“My current size is actually my vegan size. What I mean by vegan size is that if I was to eat meat, I would actually be a lot bigger than what I am!” -Domz Thompson
Lierre Keith interview with Steven Crowder:
23 thoughts on “Ideology Vs. Reality: The Case of Veganism as a Religion”
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Well, I read this article first, and I liked it.
I have so many thoughts on veganism. But they are mostly just my thoughts.
I have a very overweight friend who went vegan. Her weight loss has been amazing, and I find it very challenging not to say ‘That’s because your body is starving and eating itself.’
I had a friend for many years who was raw plant based, mainly fruit. She would go to the doctor a lot, to have her *everything* levels checked, and the doctor told her she had changed his mind about veganism. Though she was a chef and a naturopath, so she was very smart about it all. Didn’t eat any of the crap a lot of vegans do.
I used to eat more veg than meat. Then I started doing crossfit (another ‘religion’) and had to massively up the meat content. And I can’t believe how good I feel. I’ve stopped crossfit, but am still eating way more meat. Steak for breakfast is the best start to the day. It suits me to eat warm cooked food. I get very sick if I eat cold and/or raw food. More people should just take the time to figure out what works best for them.
Something I like to joke about to vegans is, I tell them plants are actually more amazing than animals. They don’t have the ability to run away from predators, so they have developed complex chemical communication systems, as well as using their roots and hooking in to fungal matter – which can sometimes spread their message for many square kilometres – to talk to each other. And I hadn’t even considered that they don’t have to race about looking for food, either, until I read your article. So I’ll add that in. Personally I absolutely love plants. They’re some of my favourites things on this planet. I use this as an argument as one of the reasons I eat more meat.
Anyway, glad to have come across you on Instagram. I’ve probably annoyed the bejesus out of you here, with my lack of facts. But I really don’t have any interest in repeating facts I’ve come across to get to where I am. It’s a personality-type thing, and expecting everyone to either enjoy doing it or to be bothered doing it is unrealistic. But I’m glad others do, as I often do follow the links and learn a bit more each day.
Funny thought i had reading this: one of the reasons I love Autumn is because of the changing colors of the leaves. Even in death, plant life is beautiful. Thank you very much for your thoughtful insights!
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Thanks for sharing!
Thank you very much!